Welcome to episode 4.
EPISODE 4: Managing Motherhood, Career, and Life!
The pressures mums face juggling motherhood, family life, and work are real and how we handle these ever-present challenges is a topic of serious debate.
This week we meet with Belinda Jane Batt, a mother, positive psychology coach, and Founder of The Flourishing Mother. Belinda holds an MSc in Applied Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology (MAPPCP) from the University of East London (a course accredited by the European Coaching and Mentoring Council). After almost two decades in PR and Marketing, she is excited to finally find her passion!
You can view her website here to learn more about Belinda’s work.
Belinda runs regular 6-week online coaching programmes and you can contact Belinda here.
Find Belinda on Instagram here.
If you have been affected by any of the topics Belinda raises in the podcast discusses, and you’d like to share your story, please email me; [email protected].
Come on, the podcast
I’m on the lookout for guests. If you work in HR, diversity, and inclusion, or perhaps your leading the way at your male-dominated place of work, I’d love to hear from you; [email protected].
Key points discussed
Speakers: Zoe Jones
Belinda Jane Batt
Managing Motherhood, Career and Life!
Zoe- I have been following your business on social media and what a breath of fresh air. Everything you’re talking about in terms of supporting women which is apt for Jobsforwomen which is all about female empowerment at work, breaking down barriers, diversity, and it’s a topic that we could talk about for hours and hours, and days and days and years isn’t it?
Belinda- Yeah so, I think what’s been interesting for me that becoming a mother has really changed my whole perspective on life and what I want to do. And I think just learning to appreciate the challenges that women face personally and professionally is something that you don’t really appreciate until you become a mother yourself.
Only since becoming a mother have, I realized how much support a mother needs and that is why I launched The Flourishing Mother. Just before I had my son I started to retrain in positive psychology and coaching psychology, but it wasn’t until I had my son that I realized I wanted to work with mums to put what I had learned to good use and to support mothers’ well-being in and out of the workplace.
Zoe- that’s such a brilliant idea. My children are a little bit older now, but I feel like this is what I needed. I really struggled in those first few years with all aspects of mothering, life, going back to work. So, I think what your doing is so important. It would be great if it was part of the service, the care that women get as a given after they have children.
So, prior to launching Flouring Mothering you are working in London for years and years in PR, marketing, comms, and the charity sector. During those years did you ever face any difficulties, sort of gender inequality any issues at work as a woman working in that area?
Belinda- I think I, I don’t think it was explicit. I think at the time, I didn’t realize but when I look back I kinda realize. It’s a really good question because when I look back I don’t think I questioned whether my male counterparts were paid or treated better than I was. But I certainly towards the end of my career when I was older in my mid-thirties, I did start to question it more.
There was a career review process that it came out in a conversation that one of my peers was earning quite a lot more than I was and we were exactly the same level and that was actually really shocking. It’s not explicit and it’s not something you really question because you have this level of trust with your employer but when that kind of came to light there was a lot of uproar amongst the female organization how the female CEO had allowed that to happen.
Zoe- That’s incredible, isn’t it? How did the company respond? Do you remember?
Belinda- I actually left soon after to be honest because I had other issues relating to the treatment after having children. The career wasn’t compatible with motherhood. I didn’t appreciate how I was treated around maternity. I don’t remember exactly what happened. I know for sure that I and the person embroiled in this sort of scandal so to speak we both left soon after because we weren’t that happy anyways. He wasn’t happy either. Men don’t want to be treated differently either.
Zoe- That’s interesting what you said about a role supporting after you had kids. Because I ended up leaving London because I was working for a big corporation, and I know my mental health wasn’t in a good place. It’s like I couldn’t visualize myself going back and doing the job. I felt like a different person after having the baby and we ended up relocating as you know.
But it’s so interesting the support, and I know you’re doing some amazing work with some corporations on how they can support women when they return to work. Can you tell us a little more about that?
Belinda- Yeah, I think what you said is really important to point out. Just when you have children it can be really jarring and it’s almost like your identity is split into and a lot of the mothers, I work with are really struggling to assimilate their pre and post child identities. I’m increasingly working with corporate clients on positive psychology and coaching informed initiatives to support mothers’ wellbeing typically back into the workplace after they have had children.#
I’ve literally just come off a call with a corporate client and something that I like to talk to them about is that all the well-being models that I’ve looked at in preparing for these sessions every single aspect of wellbeing, things that people say are required for wellbeing every one of them is challenged when we have children.
Things like positive emotions, engagement, meaning, relationships, health; all these things are challenged in different ways when we have kids. And so, it’s really not a surprise that when become mothers and try to go back into the workplace, already our wellbeing has taken a hit, and there are a lot, a lot of barriers that women face when they go back to work.
A lot of the mothers that I have spoken to have a huge amount of guilt about leaving their children to return to work and that can sort of really get under your skin, that feeling of guilt.
And I think that when we have children, all of our careers were taught to focus on ourselves, focus on our careers and then suddenly we have children and it’s like we kind of told we need to focus on our children and do what’s best for them and being self-sacrificing and competing ideologies, I guess.
So, we’re like pulled in all these different directions. So the majority of people I talk to feel guilty about it, they feel stuck between the ideas of career and individualism versus motherhood and self-sacrifice ideology. They feel such pressure to do well in both spheres and not drop any goals and you can’t do that and inevitably it will lead to stress and burnout.
And there’s this massive lack of support and recognition that motherhood and mothering is work. It’s actually a job. It’s like you become a mother; you have an extra job even if you don’t in a sense have paid employment; you have unpaid employment at home. And I think that’s not something that employers and society recognizes enough.
And then other things, it’s like a big psychological shift. We’re trying to figure out who we were, who we are now, are values have changed or may have changed and unfortunately, a lot of women go back to work and experience marginalization, unflexible working hours.
You know someone asked me today what about the fathers? I’m not saying that the fathers don’t experience challenges too much in most cases, not all; it’s the mothers who are also the primary care givers even when they go back to work.
So, the mothers in the office have to drop everything if their child is sick. I’m not saying fathers don’t have challenges too but it’s mainly the primary care giver that suffers. All of these issues really.
Zoe- Yeah. I’ve been doing loads of reading on this and I’ve read several books on Audible like a crazy women and but there was something about it’s the thinking time so like my husband and I would like try as much as we can to split child care but inevitably a lot of it falls back onto me no disregard to him but it’s also the thinking time so you know generally thinking about where the kids are, what they are doing, when they are on school holidays, where are they going to camp.
And the more women I speak to it tends to fall into the mothers’ remit and when you talked then about returning to work it almost gave me shivers. You know like your body takes like a year and a half almost two years to fully recover from giving birth and then your expected, some people go back sooner maybe nine months to a year and your sort of expected to just revert back on you and just be the person you were whilst looking after a human and everything else that comes with it. So that work you’re doing sounds amazing. But there is so much more that businesses can be doing, HR departments to up the level of support and I guess that level of flexibility approach.
Belinda- Yeah, I think it is and I love what you just said, the mental load of motherhood. All that extra thinking that women do that men don’t, I think it’s important to recognize.
But yeah, I think in terms of what corporate employers need to recognize is mothering is another job so women go away on maternity leave, and they come back with another job and that’s the fundamental thing is to try and understand that better. And I think listen, listening to mothers without judgment about their needs. Listen to their needs and try to meet them or at least some of them. Not just expecting them to change for the work you know the situation but how can they meet those needs.
Just the area I’m working in just bring in the well-being initiatives, health initiatives, just things that promote well-being for mothers even if it’s, you know I was talking today about exercise and activity in itself is a positive psychology intervention if you like. It increases your endorphins and ultimately makes you feel better.
Even small initiatives like bringing some exercise into work for mothers who don’t have a single chance to exercise outside of work you know could get involved with that. Other interventions I work with that practicing strength and gratitude there are lots of different ways that mothers can support their own well-being at work and managers can support mothers’ well-being and I think the two need to work together to improve more holistically and to help evaluate their goals and values and set new ones which are more congruent now that they are parents.
I think that companies can better support mums. I think, you know, it, it just, what something that’s been, I dunno, gets my goat a bit is speaking to, to people I know who work in, you know, corporate companies, whatever. And they, they just say, oh yeah, we’ve got wellbeing initiatives. So, you know, but it, I, I always question, well, what does that mean? Like you say, is that you’ve got an off the shelf wellbeing initiative that you wheel out for
You know, every employee is not the same as having a, a tailored wellbeing program to support returning to work mothers, for example, mm-hmm or. You know, I mean, I’m not just a retire. I mean, I, my children are two and four now, and I still have loads of those challenges. And I’m sure you do too with older, slightly older children, those challenges evolve and change.
But essentially, I don’t, I think that mothers need their own wellbeing initiatives. I don’t think it’s enough to, to just say, oh, we’ve got a, a tick box, you know, off the shelf wellbeing. Thing that we do and, you know, and that’s that and therefore we’re not interested in talking about how we can improve women’s experience when they come back from maternity leave.
I just, I think that’s just not on.
Zoe- Yeah. And everyone is so different. I remember when, uh, one of my first jobs, when we moved back to Leeds, I remember my little boy went through separation anxiety, and I would drop him off at nursery and cry all the way to work. And when I got there, there was, I mean, it was a small company, but you know, that, that, that doesn’t matter. What, what I was faced with women who just, didn’t get it. They didn’t know what to say. And it was, there was just nothing I remember having to just almost flick a switch and just revert into work mode and leave all those emotions at the door.
And that was so challenging for me because you know, your children are a part of you and you live that anxiety and that upset don’t you when you, when they separate from you. So, it’s things like that for me, that’s why, when I had my first child, I just couldn’t go back to that job in London. It was weird.It was like, I knew that the two wouldn’t go together. And I, that’s my fear for, you know, women, the world over, and that’s why the gender pay gap is, uh, so prevalent and not going anywhere soon because the amount of women that you know, are dealing with women’s health issues or that leave around childbirth age because, you know, childcare’s so expensive, you know, the amount of women maybe leaving when it gets to menopause, I’ve read statistics on women, you know, having to deal with loads of women’s health issues and then decide that it’s just time to retire.
So, there’s, so everything is connected, isn’t it? So, if the support isn’t there for women, these are issues are just gonna continue. So, I think the work you’re doing is incredible and your work you’re doing one-to-one work as well.
Aren’t you? So you’re doing your corporate work. Tell me a little bit about your One to one work.
Belinda- Yeah. So, I’ve do been doing one-to-one coaching with moms for a while. Um, and that’s just, that can be like any number of challenges that they’re facing or anything they want to, you know, if they want to pursue new, um, a new career or, you know, improve their own wellbeing, you know, it, it can be like a million different things that they want to work on, but essentially one to one coaching to improve mother’s wellbeing.
I live in Topness and Devon. So I’ve been doing some in-person group coaching, which has been lovely with babies, which has been really sweet. Um, just mum’s coming along and bringing their babies with them and, and doing some coaching as best we can obviously with the babies sometimes crying and whatnot, but it’s been quite nice.
Then, and then, yeah, what increasingly working with corporates on the wellbeing initiatives, and I’m actually just about to launch next month, uh, a new six week online coaching program, which is for 10 mums I’ve capped it 10/ I really want to make sure that the people doing it get, you know, the most value they possibly can.
And that is bringing all of my positive psychology coaching. All of my learnings, I’m doing a, um, another course at the moment in sociology of motherhood. So I’m really bringing all that kind of awareness about the structure, societal structures and the things that keep us in place and stop us from flourishing.
And I’m kind of bringing that all into one program basically. So it’s got one-to-one coaching group coaching and, um, and also some learning modules as well. So I’m really excited about that. That launches in September.
Zoe- Oh, that sounds fantastic. That’s something that we all need don’t we, can you imagine if when everyone gave birth, they could just have this support.Like, I mean, that would’ve changed my whole experience of, of being a new mom, but I also just to go back to something else you said, um, your children are two and four now mine are, have to think about those five and seven and it does shift. It’s like what I said earlier about, you know, the first few years, and it’s really challenging, but it’s like you, you said earlier it does shift.So, the challenges are still there. Aren’t they, they just become. They just sort of shift slightly as the children get older. Like my little boy at the moment is going through a worrying stage bit of anxiety, and I’m trying to sort of navigating that, you know, supporting him while still working. So although it’s not like, getting into a nursery or dealing with, um, you know, expensive childcare, there, there are always issues being a parent, being a mother that you’re gonna have workaround whilst juggling, earning money for the family and career.
Belinda- Um, yeah, so that’s interesting. Yeah. I think it’s. It’s definitely more emotion. As, as someone said this to me the other day, you, you have to offer more emotional support when your children get older. So, for me, the challenges right now are mainly relating to health, having to drop everything every time they’re sick, which is all the time, you know?
And then as they get older yeah you really have to get in tune with their emotional needs. And that also has huge demands on, on mothers and well, of course in general. Um, so yeah, it changes. And then when you get older still, you know, I’ve worked with moms who are, who have kids that have left home and then they just feel this sense of kind of what, where am I now?
What, what am I now? You know, I was a mother and now I’m, you know, they’ve gone, they’ve flown the nest. What now? So, it’s it. The challenges are different at every stage of motherhood. I think.
Zoe- So, what we’re saying is it’s the support, it’s the lack of support or it’s I suppose it’s for women to empower themselves, like you said earlier about women supporting themselves. But also if they’re working in a corporation, it’s, it’s the two coming together, isn’t it.
So, it’s not just about getting loads of help without helping yourself. It’s the two that need to marry up, don’t they? So, we need to be empowering ourselves and helping ourself.
Belinda- Absolutely. I think we need to upskill ourselves and that’s where I can help, you know, with like learning tools and techniques that we can use to improve our wellbeing.
And I think we also need to connect with other likeminded mothers and be surrounding ourselves with the right people. Um, and I think, yeah, we also need to be kind of shouting about the fact that, that it’s things are not equal and mothers are not supported and society does not view mothering as a job.
And, you know, I think we need to be having these conversations a lot more openly. It’s amazing when you post things on LinkedIn, you know, like I get that all the time. I. If someone said to me, oh, you’re brave the other day for posting something about, you know, the inequality in the workplace. And the fact that, you know, society is, is not recognizing the work that mothers are doing.
Um, in the workplace, you know, someone told me I was brave, and I thought, God, that needs to change. Isn’t it? That’s not brave. It’s just like it everyone should be talking about this.
Zoe- Yeah. And it’s like, I was chatting to someone the other day, who is a stay at home, mom, you know, the, you know, and she said she gets, she sort of gets the eye rolls or she’ll get like, um, you know, she thinks that people are making an assumption about her, either her income or whatever it is. So it’s like, you, you get judged if you work full-time and never see your kids and your kids are in after school club, you get judged. If you don’t work and you’re stay at home, mom, it’s like, and I, I can’t help, but feel.
Always the women, you know, my husband works full time and he’s not getting judged if the kids go to our school club, but it’s the society. It’s these societal, what’s the word? You know, the, the values that are placed. In society that everyone’s performing to.
Belinda- Labels, yeah.
Zoe- Yeah and I always remember my best friend she had babies’ way before our, our group. So, you know, like our school friends and the one word she always say to me, when we ever talked about babies was guilt. She could not handle the guilt. And I know you’ve mentioned that word. but that’s such an interesting one. Isn’t it? Cause I talked to my husband about that now it’s like the guilt of not being able to keep everything, all the plates spinning, but it’s like, we need to remove that guilt, don’t we?
Belinda- It’s really hard. I think guilt’s the number one thing I know that that mothers talk about. And for me, I did my master’s research on guilt and shame and new motherhood, and it’s just astounding how many things mothers feel guilty about? It’s just. I mean, it’s like, you can feel guilty about every single thing, basically, you know, you can torture yourself with it.
Um, and I think we just need to yeah. Be supported to, I dunno if someone said to me the other day, interestingly, when you have to apparently there is research to suggest that when you have more than three children, you actually feel less guilt as a mother. And I think that is purely because you just, you must just get to a point where you realize that you, you really can’t do it all.
Maybe when you’ve got like one or two children, you just kinda think, well, maybe I should just work harder. And then when you get to three or four, you’re like, okay,
The pressures mums face juggling motherhood, family life, and work are real and how we handle these ever-present challenges is a topic of serious debate.
This week we meet with Belinda Jane Batt, a mother, positive psychology coach, and Founder of The Flourishing Mother. Belinda holds an MSc in Applied Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology (MAPPCP) from the University of East London (a course accredited by the European Coaching and Mentoring Council). After almost two decades in PR and Marketing, she is excited to finally find her passion!
You can view her website here to learn more about Belinda’s work.
Belinda runs regular 6-week online coaching programmes and you can contact Belinda here.
Find Belinda on Instagram here.
If you have been affected by any of the topics Belinda raises in the podcast discusses, and you’d like to share your story, please email me; [email protected].
Come on, the podcast
I’m on the lookout for guests. If you work in HR, diversity, and inclusion, or perhaps your leading the way at your male-dominated place of work, I’d love to hear from you; [email protected].
Key points discussed
Speakers: Zoe Jones
Belinda Jane Batt
Managing Motherhood, Career and Life!
Zoe- I have been following your business on social media and what a breath of fresh air. Everything you’re talking about in terms of supporting women which is apt for Jobsforwomen which is all about female empowerment at work, breaking down barriers, diversity, and it’s a topic that we could talk about for hours and hours, and days and days and years isn’t it?
Belinda- Yeah so, I think what’s been interesting for me that becoming a mother has really changed my whole perspective on life and what I want to do. And I think just learning to appreciate the challenges that women face personally and professionally is something that you don’t really appreciate until you become a mother yourself.
Only since becoming a mother have, I realized how much support a mother needs and that is why I launched The Flourishing Mother. Just before I had my son I started to retrain in positive psychology and coaching psychology, but it wasn’t until I had my son that I realized I wanted to work with mums to put what I had learned to good use and to support mothers’ well-being in and out of the workplace.
Zoe- that’s such a brilliant idea. My children are a little bit older now, but I feel like this is what I needed. I really struggled in those first few years with all aspects of mothering, life, going back to work. So, I think what your doing is so important. It would be great if it was part of the service, the care that women get as a given after they have children.
So, prior to launching Flouring Mothering you are working in London for years and years in PR, marketing, comms, and the charity sector. During those years did you ever face any difficulties, sort of gender inequality any issues at work as a woman working in that area?
Belinda- I think I, I don’t think it was explicit. I think at the time, I didn’t realize but when I look back I kinda realize. It’s a really good question because when I look back I don’t think I questioned whether my male counterparts were paid or treated better than I was. But I certainly towards the end of my career when I was older in my mid-thirties, I did start to question it more.
There was a career review process that it came out in a conversation that one of my peers was earning quite a lot more than I was and we were exactly the same level and that was actually really shocking. It’s not explicit and it’s not something you really question because you have this level of trust with your employer but when that kind of came to light there was a lot of uproar amongst the female organization how the female CEO had allowed that to happen.
Zoe- That’s incredible, isn’t it? How did the company respond? Do you remember?
Belinda- I actually left soon after to be honest because I had other issues relating to the treatment after having children. The career wasn’t compatible with motherhood. I didn’t appreciate how I was treated around maternity. I don’t remember exactly what happened. I know for sure that I and the person embroiled in this sort of scandal so to speak we both left soon after because we weren’t that happy anyways. He wasn’t happy either. Men don’t want to be treated differently either.
Zoe- That’s interesting what you said about a role supporting after you had kids. Because I ended up leaving London because I was working for a big corporation, and I know my mental health wasn’t in a good place. It’s like I couldn’t visualize myself going back and doing the job. I felt like a different person after having the baby and we ended up relocating as you know.
But it’s so interesting the support, and I know you’re doing some amazing work with some corporations on how they can support women when they return to work. Can you tell us a little more about that?
Belinda- Yeah, I think what you said is really important to point out. Just when you have children it can be really jarring and it’s almost like your identity is split into and a lot of the mothers, I work with are really struggling to assimilate their pre and post child identities. I’m increasingly working with corporate clients on positive psychology and coaching informed initiatives to support mothers’ wellbeing typically back into the workplace after they have had children.#
I’ve literally just come off a call with a corporate client and something that I like to talk to them about is that all the well-being models that I’ve looked at in preparing for these sessions every single aspect of wellbeing, things that people say are required for wellbeing every one of them is challenged when we have children.
Things like positive emotions, engagement, meaning, relationships, health; all these things are challenged in different ways when we have kids. And so, it’s really not a surprise that when become mothers and try to go back into the workplace, already our wellbeing has taken a hit, and there are a lot, a lot of barriers that women face when they go back to work.
A lot of the mothers that I have spoken to have a huge amount of guilt about leaving their children to return to work and that can sort of really get under your skin, that feeling of guilt.
And I think that when we have children, all of our careers were taught to focus on ourselves, focus on our careers and then suddenly we have children and it’s like we kind of told we need to focus on our children and do what’s best for them and being self-sacrificing and competing ideologies, I guess.
So, we’re like pulled in all these different directions. So the majority of people I talk to feel guilty about it, they feel stuck between the ideas of career and individualism versus motherhood and self-sacrifice ideology. They feel such pressure to do well in both spheres and not drop any goals and you can’t do that and inevitably it will lead to stress and burnout.
And there’s this massive lack of support and recognition that motherhood and mothering is work. It’s actually a job. It’s like you become a mother; you have an extra job even if you don’t in a sense have paid employment; you have unpaid employment at home. And I think that’s not something that employers and society recognizes enough.
And then other things, it’s like a big psychological shift. We’re trying to figure out who we were, who we are now, are values have changed or may have changed and unfortunately, a lot of women go back to work and experience marginalization, unflexible working hours.
You know someone asked me today what about the fathers? I’m not saying that the fathers don’t experience challenges too much in most cases, not all; it’s the mothers who are also the primary care givers even when they go back to work.
So, the mothers in the office have to drop everything if their child is sick. I’m not saying fathers don’t have challenges too but it’s mainly the primary care giver that suffers. All of these issues really.
Zoe- Yeah. I’ve been doing loads of reading on this and I’ve read several books on Audible like a crazy women and but there was something about it’s the thinking time so like my husband and I would like try as much as we can to split child care but inevitably a lot of it falls back onto me no disregard to him but it’s also the thinking time so you know generally thinking about where the kids are, what they are doing, when they are on school holidays, where are they going to camp.
And the more women I speak to it tends to fall into the mothers’ remit and when you talked then about returning to work it almost gave me shivers. You know like your body takes like a year and a half almost two years to fully recover from giving birth and then your expected, some people go back sooner maybe nine months to a year and your sort of expected to just revert back on you and just be the person you were whilst looking after a human and everything else that comes with it. So that work you’re doing sounds amazing. But there is so much more that businesses can be doing, HR departments to up the level of support and I guess that level of flexibility approach.
Belinda- Yeah, I think it is and I love what you just said, the mental load of motherhood. All that extra thinking that women do that men don’t, I think it’s important to recognize.
But yeah, I think in terms of what corporate employers need to recognize is mothering is another job so women go away on maternity leave, and they come back with another job and that’s the fundamental thing is to try and understand that better. And I think listen, listening to mothers without judgment about their needs. Listen to their needs and try to meet them or at least some of them. Not just expecting them to change for the work you know the situation but how can they meet those needs.
Just the area I’m working in just bring in the well-being initiatives, health initiatives, just things that promote well-being for mothers even if it’s, you know I was talking today about exercise and activity in itself is a positive psychology intervention if you like. It increases your endorphins and ultimately makes you feel better.
Even small initiatives like bringing some exercise into work for mothers who don’t have a single chance to exercise outside of work you know could get involved with that. Other interventions I work with that practicing strength and gratitude there are lots of different ways that mothers can support their own well-being at work and managers can support mothers’ well-being and I think the two need to work together to improve more holistically and to help evaluate their goals and values and set new ones which are more congruent now that they are parents.
I think that companies can better support mums. I think, you know, it, it just, what something that’s been, I dunno, gets my goat a bit is speaking to, to people I know who work in, you know, corporate companies, whatever. And they, they just say, oh yeah, we’ve got wellbeing initiatives. So, you know, but it, I, I always question, well, what does that mean? Like you say, is that you’ve got an off the shelf wellbeing initiative that you wheel out for
You know, every employee is not the same as having a, a tailored wellbeing program to support returning to work mothers, for example, mm-hmm or. You know, I mean, I’m not just a retire. I mean, I, my children are two and four now, and I still have loads of those challenges. And I’m sure you do too with older, slightly older children, those challenges evolve and change.
But essentially, I don’t, I think that mothers need their own wellbeing initiatives. I don’t think it’s enough to, to just say, oh, we’ve got a, a tick box, you know, off the shelf wellbeing. Thing that we do and, you know, and that’s that and therefore we’re not interested in talking about how we can improve women’s experience when they come back from maternity leave.
I just, I think that’s just not on.
Zoe- Yeah. And everyone is so different. I remember when, uh, one of my first jobs, when we moved back to Leeds, I remember my little boy went through separation anxiety, and I would drop him off at nursery and cry all the way to work. And when I got there, there was, I mean, it was a small company, but you know, that, that, that doesn’t matter. What, what I was faced with women who just, didn’t get it. They didn’t know what to say. And it was, there was just nothing I remember having to just almost flick a switch and just revert into work mode and leave all those emotions at the door.
And that was so challenging for me because you know, your children are a part of you and you live that anxiety and that upset don’t you when you, when they separate from you. So, it’s things like that for me, that’s why, when I had my first child, I just couldn’t go back to that job in London. It was weird.It was like, I knew that the two wouldn’t go together. And I, that’s my fear for, you know, women, the world over, and that’s why the gender pay gap is, uh, so prevalent and not going anywhere soon because the amount of women that you know, are dealing with women’s health issues or that leave around childbirth age because, you know, childcare’s so expensive, you know, the amount of women maybe leaving when it gets to menopause, I’ve read statistics on women, you know, having to deal with loads of women’s health issues and then decide that it’s just time to retire.
So, there’s, so everything is connected, isn’t it? So, if the support isn’t there for women, these are issues are just gonna continue. So, I think the work you’re doing is incredible and your work you’re doing one-to-one work as well.
Aren’t you? So you’re doing your corporate work. Tell me a little bit about your One to one work.
Belinda- Yeah. So, I’ve do been doing one-to-one coaching with moms for a while. Um, and that’s just, that can be like any number of challenges that they’re facing or anything they want to, you know, if they want to pursue new, um, a new career or, you know, improve their own wellbeing, you know, it, it can be like a million different things that they want to work on, but essentially one to one coaching to improve mother’s wellbeing.
I live in Topness and Devon. So I’ve been doing some in-person group coaching, which has been lovely with babies, which has been really sweet. Um, just mum’s coming along and bringing their babies with them and, and doing some coaching as best we can obviously with the babies sometimes crying and whatnot, but it’s been quite nice.
Then, and then, yeah, what increasingly working with corporates on the wellbeing initiatives, and I’m actually just about to launch next month, uh, a new six week online coaching program, which is for 10 mums I’ve capped it 10/ I really want to make sure that the people doing it get, you know, the most value they possibly can.
And that is bringing all of my positive psychology coaching. All of my learnings, I’m doing a, um, another course at the moment in sociology of motherhood. So I’m really bringing all that kind of awareness about the structure, societal structures and the things that keep us in place and stop us from flourishing.
And I’m kind of bringing that all into one program basically. So it’s got one-to-one coaching group coaching and, um, and also some learning modules as well. So I’m really excited about that. That launches in September.
Zoe- Oh, that sounds fantastic. That’s something that we all need don’t we, can you imagine if when everyone gave birth, they could just have this support.Like, I mean, that would’ve changed my whole experience of, of being a new mom, but I also just to go back to something else you said, um, your children are two and four now mine are, have to think about those five and seven and it does shift. It’s like what I said earlier about, you know, the first few years, and it’s really challenging, but it’s like you, you said earlier it does shift.So, the challenges are still there. Aren’t they, they just become. They just sort of shift slightly as the children get older. Like my little boy at the moment is going through a worrying stage bit of anxiety, and I’m trying to sort of navigating that, you know, supporting him while still working. So although it’s not like, getting into a nursery or dealing with, um, you know, expensive childcare, there, there are always issues being a parent, being a mother that you’re gonna have workaround whilst juggling, earning money for the family and career.
Belinda- Um, yeah, so that’s interesting. Yeah. I think it’s. It’s definitely more emotion. As, as someone said this to me the other day, you, you have to offer more emotional support when your children get older. So, for me, the challenges right now are mainly relating to health, having to drop everything every time they’re sick, which is all the time, you know?
And then as they get older yeah you really have to get in tune with their emotional needs. And that also has huge demands on, on mothers and well, of course in general. Um, so yeah, it changes. And then when you get older still, you know, I’ve worked with moms who are, who have kids that have left home and then they just feel this sense of kind of what, where am I now?
What, what am I now? You know, I was a mother and now I’m, you know, they’ve gone, they’ve flown the nest. What now? So, it’s it. The challenges are different at every stage of motherhood. I think.
Zoe- So, what we’re saying is it’s the support, it’s the lack of support or it’s I suppose it’s for women to empower themselves, like you said earlier about women supporting themselves. But also if they’re working in a corporation, it’s, it’s the two coming together, isn’t it.
So, it’s not just about getting loads of help without helping yourself. It’s the two that need to marry up, don’t they? So, we need to be empowering ourselves and helping ourself.
Belinda- Absolutely. I think we need to upskill ourselves and that’s where I can help, you know, with like learning tools and techniques that we can use to improve our wellbeing.
And I think we also need to connect with other likeminded mothers and be surrounding ourselves with the right people. Um, and I think, yeah, we also need to be kind of shouting about the fact that, that it’s things are not equal and mothers are not supported and society does not view mothering as a job.
And, you know, I think we need to be having these conversations a lot more openly. It’s amazing when you post things on LinkedIn, you know, like I get that all the time. I. If someone said to me, oh, you’re brave the other day for posting something about, you know, the inequality in the workplace. And the fact that, you know, society is, is not recognizing the work that mothers are doing.
Um, in the workplace, you know, someone told me I was brave, and I thought, God, that needs to change. Isn’t it? That’s not brave. It’s just like it everyone should be talking about this.
Zoe- Yeah. And it’s like, I was chatting to someone the other day, who is a stay at home, mom, you know, the, you know, and she said she gets, she sort of gets the eye rolls or she’ll get like, um, you know, she thinks that people are making an assumption about her, either her income or whatever it is. So it’s like, you, you get judged if you work full-time and never see your kids and your kids are in after school club, you get judged. If you don’t work and you’re stay at home, mom, it’s like, and I, I can’t help, but feel.
Always the women, you know, my husband works full time and he’s not getting judged if the kids go to our school club, but it’s the society. It’s these societal, what’s the word? You know, the, the values that are placed. In society that everyone’s performing to.
Belinda- Labels, yeah.
Zoe- Yeah and I always remember my best friend she had babies’ way before our, our group. So, you know, like our school friends and the one word she always say to me, when we ever talked about babies was guilt. She could not handle the guilt. And I know you’ve mentioned that word. but that’s such an interesting one. Isn’t it? Cause I talked to my husband about that now it’s like the guilt of not being able to keep everything, all the plates spinning, but it’s like, we need to remove that guilt, don’t we?
Belinda- It’s really hard. I think guilt’s the number one thing I know that that mothers talk about. And for me, I did my master’s research on guilt and shame and new motherhood, and it’s just astounding how many things mothers feel guilty about? It’s just. I mean, it’s like, you can feel guilty about every single thing, basically, you know, you can torture yourself with it.
Um, and I think we just need to yeah. Be supported to, I dunno if someone said to me the other day, interestingly, when you have to apparently there is research to suggest that when you have more than three children, you actually feel less guilt as a mother. And I think that is purely because you just, you must just get to a point where you realize that you, you really can’t do it all.
Maybe when you’ve got like one or two children, you just kinda think, well, maybe I should just work harder. And then when you get to three or four, you’re like, okay,